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Liberal Hypocrisy: Abortion and Gun Control

January 22, 2013

The following exchange happened the other night on a Facebook post that began as a gun control debate but quickly turned into an abortion debate. It went that way because when opportunity to take it in that direction presented itself, I took it. It was my intention to point out the glaring hypocrisy that exists between the conflicting Liberal ideologies of using gun control as an excuse to save children’s lives while fervently supporting the practice of abortion. The conversation got very heated and proved my point exactly. They used about every talking point there is to support abortion and also showed the callousness they have for human life.

 

Person #1: Aside from the risky business, do you think assault rifles and big magazine clips should be in the hands of anyone who wants one?

Person #0: Yes, Person #1, I’m one if those pesky ones that clings to guns and religion. If one can afford the guns and ammunition and pass a background check, then the government should not infringe upon that freedom. And to be quite candid, these days I’m far more likely to trust my neighbor with a gun than my government with them. Sad but true.

Person #2: Banning so-called assault rifles will not save any life. And what is an assault rifle – a 270.

Person #3: “in the hands of anyone who wants one”….anyone that is law abiding, those that are not law abiding are going to get them any way no matter the laws

Me: Person #1, why shouldn’t anyone be allowed to own an “assault rifle”?

Person #3: Why should people be allowed to own a car that will travel at 120mph when the speed limit is 70mph, Why call it an assault rifle, it is just a gun, PEOPLE make it an assault. What about assault knives, assault hammers, assault rocks, assault ball bats, assault cars, assault whiskey, assault beer bottle, assault doctors (those that mess up and KILL patients), and the list goes on……………..

Person #2: Anyone who is a law-biding citizen should be able to own a rifle: 270, AK47, 22, or even a 357 if they want to. Why not? I sure don’t want a Chicago Ward Healer, mobster, numbers game, politician signing an executive order keeping me from owning one if I want one. An assault 9-iron could kill someone.

Person #0: Perhaps — PERHAPS — true high-capacity weapons should not have ever been sold to the general public. Perhaps. Someone else will have to argue that case though. However, the fact that such weapons have been sold for so long means that those who would use them for harm will ALWAYS have access to them — if only via theft. Remember, criminals by definition break laws. So even if through Exec Order (or even an act of Congress) the Pres ordered all such weapons registered or surrendered, the same principle applies. The bad guys won’t comply. Criminals are not compelled by laws. The bad guys have these weapons, and because of that, the good, honest, hard-working, law-abiding citizens NEED them. You can’t put toothpaste back into the tube. And our police cannot be everywhere in time or at the right time. That’s our situation, as I see it. And can we all agree that the Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting? I’m sick of those stupid comments in the news.

Person #2: I would draw the line on mags that holdover 20 slugs or weapons such as 50 cal. or bazookas. The only reason Heir Obama signed the exec order is political. If he wanted to save infant and children lives; sign an EO to stop late-term abortions where the life is sucked out of an almost born child.

Person #1: @ Person #2…..I somehow don’t think an assault rock would be able to kill 26 people in the same amount of time…probably not an assault hammer either…do you? It would only take a couple of people to overwhelm a maniac with a bag of assault hammers.

Me: Person #1, are you only concerned with how many people can die in one criminal act? Because hammers killed twice as many people last year than rifles did.

Person #1: Me…can you send me the statistics on that fact?

Me: Will do. It’s on the FBI data base website. Give me a minute,

Me: I was slightly off, I was thinking about hands & feet, which killed 728 people. Hammers killed 496. While rifles were used to commit 323 murders in 2011. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Person #1: Thanks…that will be a very enlightening read for me. Was it young children who were targeted by the hammer wielding villains or lousy carpenters targeted by unsatisfied homeowners? There have been over 900 gun deaths since Sandy Hook. Do you suppose the hammer murder rate is as high? I am extremely curious about all this…

Me: Person #1, do you care about all people who are murdered in America or just those murdered by guns?

Me: Facts be known, firearms do account for the majority of murders. I will not try to deny that.

Person #1: I am a pacifist in most regards….but especially when tiny children’s bodies are shredded senselessly.

Person #0: I love my friends. So glad to provide you with food for thought — or something like that.

Me: I’m glad you said that Person #1. Because I see a lot of what you post on Person #0’s page… Is it safe for me to assume you support the Democrat Party?

Person #2: People I think the point here is that we can’t have a dictator making EOs to wreck freedoms. Obama is a scary person.

Person #1: @ Person #2….Apparently not as scary as Mitt Romney…otherwise HE would have been elected….@ Me, no I am registered as an Independent so I can vote for the person I think is best suited for the job. It always depends on the issues in the country at any given time. FYI…I don’t even own a squirt gun!

Me: This is not about guns anymore. I can assume by your comment about Romney that you didn’t vote for him. So I guess that leaves President Obama. I quote you as saying “especially when tiny children’s bodies are shredded”, correct? What is abortion and how then could you every vote for someone who vigorously supports the murder of an unborn child?

Person #1: Pretty sure Obama supports a woman’s right to choose……Do you remember Roe V. Wade?

Me: I know it very well. A woman’s right to choose what?

Person #1: When you send me the numbers on deaths by hammers can you also send me a quote from Obama showing he “VIGOROUSLY SUPPORTS THE MURDER ” of an unborn child?

Me: How can you deny that is what abortion is?

Person #1: What her body and mental health is capable of handling…

Me: What is abortion?

Person #1: A medical decision to be made by a woman and her doctor…what else could it possibly be?

Me: You are a delusional hypocrite.

Person #1: Still want to see evidence of a QUOTE from Obama that he supports murdering an unborn child…

Me: Every abortion is the termination of a life. A baby is literally torn to shreds and removed from its mother’s womb.

Me: That is what abortion is. The death of a baby. He supports abortion, PERIOD!

Person #1: I actually worked in an ob/gyn clinic for many years in the 80’s and saw more than one woman who had 3 or 4 kids …had her tubes tied and ended up pregnant! Since she and her husband could barely feed and clothe the children they already had…not to mention the hospital expenses of a delivery, they opted for abortion. It was THEIR decision….BTW…The SUPREME COURT determined Roe V. Wade. So who DO you think should make these decisions? YOU?

Me: It’s ok to kill a child when…?

Person #2: Me, you cannot win an argument or discussion on abortion. My comment on the subject, even though I am firmly against ALL abortions, was directly pointed toward : LATE TERM acts of MURDER. I read an article that stated that the number of children available for adoption was low. Therefore, with so many families wanting to adopt, there are FEW reasons for adoption. If a woman finds herself in this condition, there are options. If there is a health condition that could cause the mother’s death then the other options could be used. However, we are in the minority here.

Me: Why is it ok for a mother to kill her unborn child but not for someone to kill a child in a school room?

Me: There is ZERO difference. It is never ok.

Person #1: No need to call me names… We simply have a difference of opinion. You have exaggerated your position by saying Obama vigorously supports murder..which he simply does not.

Me: Person #2, you may say I can’t win, but I will NEVER STOP DEFENDING THEM. EVER!

Person #1: Would you rather an unwanted child is brought into a home and be left to starve or be abused?

Person #2: http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Obama/Abortion.php

Person #1: Thanks Person #2…..a fetus that is aborted early on ARE NOT SHREDDED…..

Person #2: Person #1, there is a home for EVERY unborn child. No need for abortion.

Me: What difference does that make? Does it make you feel better? Not shredded? Like that makes it all better.

Me: Would I want a child to starve? Ahhh… moral relativism. So why don’t we just execute the parents?

Person #1: Where are these homes for every unwanted child? Are they all good homes? NO! There is rampant child abuse everywhere. @ Me…Why should YOU have more right to decide issues about a woman’s body than SHE should?

Person #1: @ Person #2….thanks for the video clip on Obama…what part was so objectionable? I had seen it before actually and it sound perfectly reasonable…Me, feel free to watch it again…He plainly states he is Pro- Choice..NOT pro-ABORTION…for Heaven’s sake.

Me: You are justifying killing unborn babies. Don’t you get that?

Person #1: You are justifying keeping unwanted babies…Don’t you get that?

Me: I get it very clearly.

Me: How can you be Pro-Choice but not Pro-Abortion? What is the choice?

Me: What other unwanted people should we get rid of?

Person #1: I don’t think you DO get it….It’s not YOUR choice what happens to an unborn child. YOU have no control over it..zero..zip…nada…The only other unwanted people I’d like to get rid of is people who use assault rifles to murder people in schools and theaters and other places where they have a captive audience. BUT, none of that is up to ME….

Me: Aren’t babies in the womb a captive audience? They can’t get away when the abortionists’ knife comes for them.

Person #3: Likening Pro-Choice to Pro-Abortion is a ridiculous comparison. Being Pro-Choice simply means you want the option to choose abortion to be out there for anyone who may not want to give birth to a child…Pro-Abortion would mean you want every fetus to be aborted in all cases….You might as well be anti-humanity if you’re “Pro-Abortion”, which is NOT Pro-Choice. That’s basically a Straw Man definition of Pro-Choice, used only by those who wish to label the Pro-Choice populace of America in such a Straw Man fashion that they no longer define them as human beings, but “baby killers”.

Me: You can call it whatever you want to Person #3 if it makes you feel better.

Person #1: Thanks Person #3…whoever you are….

Person #1: @ Me…Doctors use a vacuum/suction type device…NOT a KNIFE..where did you get THAT idea….generally the fetus comes out whole and in 1 piece. It is not pleasant or nice, but sometimes it is a necessity

Person #4: and sometimes they use scissors in the top of the head in late term abortions. Nope… nothing pleasant or nice about it!

Me: What difference does your little game of semantics mean if the end result is still a dead baby? How does the meaning of words make a difference?

Person #1: If you ever saw one I doubt you would still think of it as a baby…usually it is the size and shape of a lentil.

Me: That makes it all better.

Me: It is a baby. I have two of them myself.

Person #2: I can’t really say “pro-choice” is “for abortion” but it’s close to the same. It’s just a feel good stand. But I would not want to go back to a “coat hanger” approach. To take the high road – even Jesus Christ does not force his will on people so as a follower of Christ I must take the same approach. That’s the reason I LIKE PLANNED PARENTHOOD and I think they get a bum deal. They don’t push abortion they consul women. Our churches should take a stand to lead in this issue. I cannot force my will on others but I must say “Take the alternative route” and do not KILL the unborn.

Me: If Pro-Choice isn’t “for abortion”, what is the choice?

Person #1: Yep…think of it like this…there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it…..EVER….You will not be able to decide whether any random woman should have an abortion or not. It is not up to you at all and never will be …so think about something else…like gun control maybe….at least you can buy as many as you like if you want to…and if you do it quickly before the big bad gov’t prevents it….Good night.

Me: Whatever…

Person #1: The choice is that in certain periods of your life you might be able to CHOOSE to raise a child and in other circumstances you might CHOOSE NOT to ..duh. You might be too immature…too financially dependent…too ill…whatever and decide it is not possible to give a child the care and support it needs for the next 18 years…Another time you might CHOOSE to be a great parent. That’s why it is called PRO-Choice.

Person #3: Actually, if you cared to listen at all to my rationale, you would understand there is a clear difference. All you see is a dead “baby”, so far as I know, you don’t see the woman in this whole process. The body that continually develops the fetus should have a say in the fetus’s fate. I would say I don’t mind abortion up until the point of fetal viability.

“How does the meaning of words make a difference?”
…..how do the meanings of words make a difference in the ultimate message being brought forth by structures of multiple words with meanings called sentences? You’ve got to be kidding me.

“You can call it whatever you want to…”
I think I’ll go with the generally accepted meaning of the term, rather than the illogical “definition”.

Oh, a nice segue for this conversation: Me, what do you think of the death penalty?

Person #1: Person #3…You may just be my new best friend….

Me: You can dance around all you want and try to insult me, I don’t care.

Me: The death penalty is just what it says. If you’re into the meaning of words? It is a penalty… for those people who do wrong.

Me: And I fully believe in it.

Person #3: I didn’t ask you to define it for me, but seeing as our little scuffle was all about the meanings of words, it’s understandable.

So Jesus wouldn’t stone an adulterer, but he without a doubt would flip the switch on someone in an electric chair….right?

Me: What does this have to do with Jesus? You want a baby to die because it is “unwanted” but a man who killed 20 school children should live?

Me: Is it wrong to throw a bag of kittens into the river and drown them?

Person #3: Actually, I said once a fetus reaches the point of viability, it should not be aborted, so no, I’m not in favor of “killing babies”. But if you’re willing to go as far as to define a fetus at any stage to be a baby, then why stop there? I mean if we’re talking about preserving life here (and that term is so arbitrary in intended meaning), why not ban tobacco, since it has been shown to have the side effect of lowering sperm count? Sperm are certainly alive, and they’re practically one of the building blocks of life in humans. So why doesn’t that bother you? Or does it, and you just haven’t unveiled to us your major anti-tobacco initiative yet?

And about the death penalty, life in prison should suffice. You already determine their future in either instance. I figure you could give them at least the choice between life in prison or immediate death. They could at least control that aspect of their future.

Person #3: And about your kittens question…it would be wrong to do that. Kittens have attained viability, so they shouldn’t be ridden of. I know you’re trying to liken the kittens to fetuses (or in your case, “babies”), but that’s not a fair comparison. Kittens have reached viability, the fetuses I’m talking about haven’t (but if you’re talking about fetuses to have hit the viability mark, then they shouldn’t be terminated).

Me: My point in all of this is that it is hypocritical to say we need gun control to “save lives” and be supportive of abortion. I could respect someone who is against all death. No guns, no death penalty, no meat and no abortion.

In terms of saving the most lives in this country, “assault rifles” accounted for less than 323 deaths out of 2.5 million deaths last year. All gun murders accounted for about 12,500 deaths. Approximately 770,000 abortions were reported to the CDC. If anyone is truly concerned with saving lives, this is the place to start. We can ban alcohol and tobacco, I’m good with that too. Put your money in the bank instead of puffing it up in smoke or literally pissing it down the drain.

Person #4: I will not support the President’s views on saving lives until he supports a ban on abortions. It’s as simple as that.

Person #3: The main difference between abortion and the other methods of killing is that the fetus depends on the living system of the mother to survive. It’s not as if a stork were flying babies to people’s houses and the parents of said houses were then left to choose if it is to live or not…. A fetus that has yet to reach viability being aborted is not the same as an act of infanticide.

Me: How long can a newborn baby survive on its own without any care?

Person #3: A mother who is pregnant has two options: to continue with the pregnancy or terminate the fetus. A mother who has given birth does not have the same set of options. If she decides she does not want to care for it, she does not kill it. She can place it up for adoption and it can be taken into a loving and nurturing home. That’s why abortion is an option for a pregnant woman, because that’s the only way out of a pregnancy, and otherwise all women all of the time would be forced to go through the rigors of labor and maintenance of the fetus whether they wanted to or not. It’s not an ideal set of choices, but it’s the set that humans were given.

Me: The difference is that you seem happy to allow it.

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One Comment leave one →
  1. genomega1 permalink
    January 22, 2013 10:39 pm

    A child killer has no excuse

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